Should You Believe in the Trinity? 1 of 2

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By Judah's Daughter

The First Commandment

The First Holy Commandment of God is found in Exodus 20:1-3:

“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me.”

Isaiah 43:10 "...before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me."

Hosea 13:4 “Yet I have been the LORD your God Since the land of Egypt; And you were not to know any god except Me, For there is no savior besides Me.”

I write about this subject because I love the LORD my God with all my heart, with all my soul and with all my mind and I love you, my neighbor, as myself (Mat 22:38-39).

Was the LORD God who spoke the Word a Trinity? If so, don’t you think He would have revealed this to His people from the creation? The Jews are monotheists and always have been. They witnessed God in Spirit (clouds, fire, power, inspirational words through the Prophets) and human form (i.e. to Abraham and Jacob), yet never split Him into persons.

To receive Jesus Christ as Lord in no way compromises monotheism, when you understand He is God Himself. The Trinity doctrine is as this image above. It teaches the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equally God, but that each is not the other. If each is not the other, then the Trinity is a polytheist, pagan teaching. This doctrine was not birthed until the Catholic church introduced it, along with a multitude of other pagan beliefs and practices. In this exposition, I will show you WHY I no longer believe in what I was always taught – the Trinity: God in three persons.

The Root of Protestant churches = Catholicism

Because I was raised in the Protestant faith, I never knew much about Catholicism. All I knew is there had to be good reason for believers to break away from the Catholic ‘church’. Sure, I knew they practiced things Protestants do not believe are biblical: that the ‘Church’ was founded upon Peter; the canonizing of saints; praying to and through those saints that have died (and angels, too); their exaltation of Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” and mediator; believing that the Pope or Priest could forgive [remit] sins, etc.

Throughout my Christian walk, I’ve come to find out it was the Catholic church that implemented the doctrine of the Trinity, which is the subject of this writing. They also instigated the birth date of Christ as December 25th. Since they celebrate the “Immaculate Conception” on December 8th, how is it possible Jesus could be born over a year later? How many “trinity” gods have sons born on December 25th? Why do we celebrate “Christ-Mass” with decorated trees and Saint Nicholas?

I find it quite ‘interesting’ that they observe the 40 days of Lent and refer to Mary as the “Queen of Heaven”. I recently studied the roots of Easter and found out about Ishtar (pronounced Easter) who was impregnated by the rays of the sun god (her dead husband, Nimrod), and had a son named Tammuz. Indeed, Nimrod was the wicked, great-great grandson of Noah. If you read Eze 8:14, you will see that people mourned the death of Tammuz for 40 days before celebrating his 'resurrection' and honoring his mother, the “Queen of Heaven”. Why do we yet celebrate Easter with eggs and rabbits on church grounds?

How did All Hallows Eve (Halloween) turn into “All Saints Eve”? Both surely focus on the souls of the dead. Why are all the holidays (holy days) named after Saints? (St. Valentine, St. Patrick, St. Nicholas, etc.) I can tell you, it’s because the Catholic church wanted as many pagan converts as they could get, without causing them much discomfort. They took the celebrations already practiced by the pagans and stamped the name of the Lord on them!

Alterations to the Holy Bible

What gets me the MOST upset is that it is the Catholic priests who added to and subtracted from God’s Holy Bible! All you have to do is look up a set of the Catholic 10 Commandments and compare them to the Holy Bible’s 10 Commandments found in Exodus 20. They took out the second commandment regarding the carving and worship of graven images and divided the ninth into two because worshiping images of angels and saints is what THEY DO!

Guess where the doctrine of Lucifer came from? The name “Lucifer” is only found once in the Holy Bible and it was inserted. Lucifer is a Latin proper name and stands out like a sore thumb in Isa 14:12. That passage is specifically written about the king of Babylon (14:3). They teach other false doctrines, such as purgatory, infant baptism, consuming the literal body and blood of Christ, etc.

Regardless of the offensive practices of the Catholic (and subsequent Protestant) churches, we all should know and take heed to God’s warning in Rev 22:18-19: “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.”

How can we tell what has been added or taken away? I never knew these things before, but by the power of the Holy Spirit, God opened my mind to understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45).

The Trinity Added to the Textus Receptus

It was Tertullian (150 - 225 AD) who first coined the term 'Trinity' (God in three persons) in the year 200. He was converted to Catholicism in 195 and became an ordained Priest in the year 200. Coincidence? It wasn't until the 15th century, the first official translation of the Hebrew and Greek text into Latin was done by yet another Catholic Priest, named Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus in1516. It was called the Textus Receptus. He revised it in 1519, after Aldus Manutius translated from it in 1518, with independent text.

Because some influential Catholics were offended that Erasmus’ 1516 version did not contain the Trinitarian formula of “Father, Word and Holy Spirit in 1 John 5:7, Erasmus explained that he wasn’t aware of any Greek manuscript with that wording. Hence, the Catholics came up with one, written by an Oxford scholar named Roy or Froy in 1520, known as the Codex 61. Though NO ONE has ever found Greek text containing this wording, Erasmus changed the text to please his Catholic hierarchs in his 1522 edition. This addition to the original Greek text has since been known as “The Johannine Comma”. Do you think the Codex 61 only included that verse? How many MORE Trinitarian alterations were made to the Scriptures in this document?

There were several more ‘revisions’ of Erasmus’ Textus Receptus, but the Trinity wording remained. These revisions went from Stephanus (1551) to Theodore de Bèza (1519-1605) to Elzevir (1624), with minor changes in 1633, to the 1873 Oxford edition, which is no longer available. The King James Version was translated from the Textus Receptus into English in 1611 (most likely from Theodore de Beza’s version). In fact, ALL Bible versions we have today are birthed from the Textus Receptus! Therefore, the 'foundational' doctrine of the 'Trinity', based on its altered translation, has only been around for less than five centuries!

  • A bit of trivia for you...ever wonder why good 'ol King James changed the name of the Apostle Jacob to James? Jesus didn't have a disciple/Apostle named James. We even have the book of 'James', which is really the book of 'Jacob'!!

I found it quite alarming to find out the Catholic church did not allow their members to have a Holy Bible of their very own. No one was allowed to read or interpret the Scriptures, but the Pope/Priests. Those who rebelled and succeeded in printing Bibles for the people were hunted down and martyred!! Praise God we have the Bible today, though I will unfortunately show you that tares have certainly been sown among the Seed (the Word of God) through the Latin to English translation(s).

Since the Trinitarian ‘tare’ was added to 1 John 5:7, shouldn’t you test every other reference to such a doctrine throughout the Scriptures? Truly, it is also researchable that Mat 28:19 was altered. What was originally written as “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, in My name” was changed to “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”. Nice way to leave out His NAME...If this were a command of Jesus Christ, where is the second witness? Why is it we don’t find even ONE account of the Apostles baptizing in a three-fold 'name' in all the New Testament? Rather, we only see them baptizing in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; 22:16; Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 1:13-15).

I'll tell you why:

"The Baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the 2nd century (The Catholic Encyclopedia, 2, pg 263)"

I think it blasphemous to put words in the mouth of our LORD, Jesus Christ, that He never said, don't you?

Interpreting “Us”, “Our” and “We” Passages

Gen 1:26 states,Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.’” First of all, "Let Us" is an insertion. It is not in the original Hebrew. The interlinear will show you it should read "Said God make man Our image to Our likeness rule the fish of the sea, etc." The word ‘image’ is the Hebrew word ‘tsalem’ (figurative). Man, like the angels, was created to rule over the earth as the angels rule in the heavenly realm. Verse 27 puts God and His image in the singular: “God created man in His own image [singular noun], in the image [singular noun] of God He created him; male and female He created them.” Therefore, we know the angels did not have a part in the creation of man (Gen 2:4; Job 33:4), but were certainly present when man was created (Job 38:4-7).

So God created two people; does this mean God is two or three persons? The figurative image of the husband and wife is reflective of Christ and the Church (Eph 5:32 and all throughout scripture); the birth of a child by their union is likened to the new birth (John 3:5) into God’s family (elohim).

If you read my hub GOD: Let Us Make Man in Our Image? I go into the FACT that John 1:1 states "The Word was to [pros] God [theon - object] and God [theos - subject] was the Word [Θεος ην ο λογος]. In all these passages, I have resolved, as have Jewish scholars, that God was speaking to His heavenly host. To understand more as to the definition of 'Elohim' and why the word is plural, see Part 2.

Gen 3:22 states, “Then the LORD God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "-- This was spoken at the fall of Adam and Eve in Garden of Eden. First of all, who ALSO took from the tree of life to eat and live forever? The Creator or the created angels? Did God not place cherubim to guard the entrance to the Garden, preventing Adam and Eve from eating of the tree of life? (Gen 3:24) Yes, angels were present and God was speaking to them.

Gen 11:7 states, “Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech." Was God not accompanied by two of His angels when He appeared to Abraham, sending the two angels on to rescue Lot and his family from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? (Gen 18:2; 19:1). In both cases, God was accompanied by angels to execute His judgment. It is naive of some to think the threesome that appeared to Abraham was God in three persons!

In Isa 6:8 God says "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us? Then said I, Here [am] I; send me." Verses 1-6 show us clearly that angels were present. And who volunteered? Not a member of the 'Trinity'. Compare this to 2 Kings 2:22-23 when the LORD asked for a volunteer to cause the prophets of Ahab to lie.

Lastly, John 14:23 states, “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him.” Did Jesus contradict Himself just five verses before that, when He said "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you"? (vs 18) "Orphans" is directly related to "Fatherless", not "Brotherless". Jesus would not leave them Fatherless; He, Himself, would come to them!

As with Mat 28:19, John 14:23 is yet another isolated verse that uses the Greek words eleusometha and poiesometha. It would be most helpful IF these words were used ANYWHERE else in the Greek New Testament, but they are NOT, in any context.

Isa 9:6 tells us the Son would be called "Everlasting Father". The Prophet also prophesied in 48:12 that God the Father is the Alpha [First/Beginning] and Omega [Last/End]; now, look at the words of Jesus is Rev 21:6-7: "Then He said to me, 'It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son." He is the Father, our God and Savior! (John 14:7-9); Furthermore, Jesus said in Rev 1:17-18 "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades." Cross-reference this with Isaiah 44:6:

  • "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: 'I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no God.'"

And what of Col 2:9? The KJV translates, “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”. Look up the word 'Godhead' in the Greek, theotētos, and you will see it rightly translated in the NAS, NIV and others as “Deity”. We should not read into this word as a triune ‘Godhead’.

The Person of God

Prov 30:4 KJV states, “Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in His fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] His name, and what [is] His Son's name, if thou canst tell?” Do you know what His name is?

First of all, let me say that the Old Testament prophesied of the coming Son of God more than once. Let's take another look at what the Prophet Isaiah wrote in 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God [El], The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

The LORD God gave us His name in Exodus 3:14, “I AM”. Likewise, God in the flesh was named ‘Jesus’ (YHWH Saves) in Mat 1:21 and ‘Immanuel’ (God with us) in Mat 1:23. Jesus revealed His name in John 8:58, “I AM”. Did you know what Jesus said to calm the storm when He came to His disciples walking on water, after His resurrection? “I AM” (Mark 6:48-50). Look up the Greek for what is translated as “it is I”. It should read exactly the same as John 8:58 “I AM” (egō eimi). Furthermore, what is said about the LORD God in Job 9:8? “Which [He] alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.”

Isa 44:24 KJV "Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, and He that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself;"

Let me ask you a question. In the Old Testament, did God ever reveal Himself in more than one person? Never. As mentioned earlier, He showed up in bodily form to meet with Abraham in Gen 18:2, and the two men with Him were angels (Gen 19:1). He also showed up in bodily form to wrestle with Jacob in Gen 32:24, 28 & 30. While God manifested Himself in Spirit (i.e. clouds and fire) and in bodily form, He never showed up in multiples. As I said before, the Jews witnessed God in Spirit and body, they never compromised the first Holy Commandment (Deut 6:4; Mark 12:29) by splitting God into ‘persons’. God is one person: Job 13:8 verifies, “Will ye accept His person? will ye contend for God?” "...Christ is the brightness of [His] glory, and the express image of His person (Heb 1:3).

You might ask what I did, which was “Why didn’t God just show up in adult, human form to save us? Why did He have to be born of a virgin to become a man of flesh and blood?" God answered me. The Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15:50, “Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.” The LORD’s appearance in the Old Testament was imperishable. And based on the Law given to Moses, Heb 9:22 tells us, "And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Gal 4:4-5 states, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." God had to shed His blood and His flesh had to perish, in order to save us.

Now look at Acts 20:28 “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.”

Maybe you think God showed up as a multiple in the New Testament baptism of Jesus. Just as we consider Mat 22:44/Ps 110:1, "The LORD said unto my Lord" and Heb 1:8/Ps 45:6 "But of the Son He says, 'Your throne, O GOD, is forever and ever'", at the baptism of Jesus the Word (Spirit) spoke to the Word (flesh)! (Mat 3:17). If the manifestation of a dove is to be counted as another 'person' of God, then we must also consider the other six manifestations of God throughout history: immortal flesh to Abraham and Jacob (Gen 18:2; 19:1; Gen 32:24, 28, 30); the Angel of the LORD (Ex 3:2; Josh 5:13; 6:2; Jud 6:11, 14), the Rock at Horeb (Ex 17:6. 1 Cor 10:4), clouds and fire (Num 14:14) and the human body of the Son.

Did the Spirit of God take on the form of a literal dove (bird)? John 1:32 states the Spirit descended 'like a dove'. Why this manifestation? John the Baptist said in the next verse (33), "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One [Jesus] who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'"

1 Tim 3:16 is just as important as John 3:16, when it comes to the TRUTH:

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." Since the word "God" is not in the original Greek, we must look at the previous verse to confirm it indeed was God manifest in the flesh: "but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth."

Isa 9:6/John 14:9; Rom 1:3; 2 Cor 3:17...Listen....Listen...

Should You Believe in the Trinity? 2 of 2

I invite you to continue on with me Part 2, which will cover the following:

  • Why is Elohim plural?
  • The Word was with God
  • Stephen saw God and the Son at His right hand (including 1 Cor 11:3 "The Head of Christ is God")
  • Delivering up the Kingdom and Subjection of the Son
  • My Father is Greater than I
  • The Son doesn’t know the Day nor the Hour
  • Another Comforter
  • Jesus calls the Father ‘My God’
  • Jesus and the Holy Spirit make Intercession for us
  • God and the Lamb in Revelation
  • The Holy Spirit and Jesus come out from the Father

Michael Adams1959 profile image

Michael Adams1959 Level 2 Commenter 12 months ago

Man, what a subject to tackle! I feel you did a good job with it. I whole heartedly believe in the trinity of Father, son, and Holy Spirit. I believe in the three in one with three distinct purposes. I do agree that the views we have are so misguided by the heretical teachings of the Romanism Catholic church that it is so hard to know the truth especially since they supposedly in the name of God destroyed so much and killed so many for their gain. And to put blinders on the people saying it is illegal and not appropriate to read the Word of God on your own it is incomprehensible to me. Can't wait to see the next article

Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter Hub Author 12 months ago

I totally understand where you're coming from, Michael Adams1959, for I at one time and for the majority of my life whole heartedly believed in the 'Trinity', too. God is the Father in Son in the Holy Spirit = the same God. To say the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father and neither are the Holy Spirit is in error, based on biblical grounding ~ but....may I say, it took the Lord to show me, and it wasn't an easy thing to do. These two hubs are a compliation of all my questions and the answers as I can explain them to the best of my ability. God bless you and I thank you for reading and commenting :-)

Jisblessed profile image

Jisblessed 12 months ago

I'm enjoying the teaching and learning. I do have a question. You said God showed up to talk with Abraham and I'm partly believing that even how I saw it in the movie. But I'm thinking from pearching I heard that God couldn't come into the earth without a body, legally nor the devil. We know devil doesn't care what's legal or unlegal. So would God have occupied the body of an angel? I thought he used the angel to speak on his behalf to Abraham. Or am I misunderstanding your statement? I will read the next one as well. Thanks

Jachda profile image

Jachda 12 months ago

It is a wonderful thing when the truth is presented, even though it may be resisted at first because of entrenched ideas and beliefs based upon the traditions of men. I enjoyed this hub, and I voted up, useful, and awesome. Great work, thank you for writing it so well.

Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter Hub Author 12 months ago

Hi sister, Jisblessed! I so appreciate your question. I, too had such a question, as it offends me that Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus a created 'angel' (that would be Michael) because they DO know it was God's Word who spoke to Moses on Mt. Sinai ~ yes it was!

When you read Ex 3:2 it would appear that a created (though divine) angel was speaking to Moses. However, look at verse 6 "Moreover He said, I [Am] the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God." That's how we know God manifested Himself as the 'Angel of the LORD'. In Ex 33:23, God appeared to Moses in another visible form with a ‘backside’ that he could look upon (Moses was not permitted to see God's face).

God appeared as the Angel of the LORD to Joshua (Josh 5:13; 6:2), Gideon (Jud 6:11, 14), and the parents of Samson (Jud 13 – see vs. 22). Also, whenever you read ‘His Christ’, this is also His visible image (Acts 3:18; 4:26; Rev 11:15; 12:10). Even the Rock at Horeb was ‘His Christ’ (Ex 17:6; 1 Cor 10:4).

Michael, on the other hand, is never called the 'Angel of the LORD', but 'the archangel' (Dan 12:1; Jude 1:9). I hope this is helpful :-)

Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter Hub Author 12 months ago

Hi Jachda! It is such a blessing to hear from you! Yes, the word 'resist', 'entrenched' and 'traditions of men' are fitting, for I was one who walked in that way myself...I am yet learning by His Spirit, as there is always more revelation of the Truth to come!!

2 Tim 2:25 comes to mind about teaching such as this: "with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth". It's not up to me or you; amen. It's up to the LORD our God. God bless you!!!

VOICE CIW profile image

VOICE CIW Level 1 Commenter 12 months ago

Judah's Daughter, you wrote this hub so professionaly, this is what you feel and believe, but I believe in the Holy Trinity. The Bible is so easily misunderstood, you need the Spirit of God (Holy Ghost)to help you to understand the Bible. When you question the validity of the Word of God (Bible), you give the Enemy opportunity to bring confusion, for he is the author of confusion. Judah's Daughter I just ask you to be careful, you may be treading on dangerous ground. I will read part 2. I love you in the Lord.

Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter Hub Author 12 months ago

I'm glad you read both parts, brother VOICE CIW. As I said to you in my second comment (which I answered first), it was the Catholic church that 'changed' the person of God into persons. God existed before the creation of the heavens, earth and man. He doesn't change. His chosen ones never believed He was more than one God and don't have to, in accepting God in the flesh, our God and Savior.

The trinity doctrine existed before Christ in pagan religions, and entered the doctrine of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob though the Catholic church. This birthed the latter-day confusion. If these alterations had not been made to the Textus Receptus, we would all see clearly. Confusion is not of God and I am no longer confused. It truly does take the Holy Spirit (God) to open our minds to understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45). I appreciate your words of concern; concern I also have for those who were born into the traditional teachings of the Catholic church.

You know I love you in the love of the Lord Jesus Christ.

VOICE CIW profile image

VOICE CIW Level 1 Commenter 12 months ago

Judah's Daughter, I am not going to argue the point, you believe what you want to believe, I believe you are wrong. I just finished writing my next hub, which is, The Holy Trinity, God in Three Persons, I will publish it today or tomorrow. Right after I read your hubs, God put this hub on my heart, and I started writing while the words were fresh in my heart. Just like you can go on and on about what you believe, so can I on what I believe, and as always, I have Scripture to back it up. As always Judah's Daughter, I love you in the Lord, I know that you have tremendous knowledge in the Word of God, I respect you for that, but those hubs you wrote, even though they are well-written, and I know you did your research, I still believe they are wrong. I continue to pray for you.

Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter Hub Author 12 months ago

I was just thinking today, brother VOICE CIW, that it is respectable to disagree, and even more respectable to present your biblical case, as I have done. I love you and respect you immensely.

Disappearinghead profile image

Disappearinghead Level 3 Commenter 12 months ago

Excellent hub JD. You have shown many things here concerning the wording of 'us', 'we' etc that I, as most of the Church, have just read over without question. I have a Jewish tannach on my kindle and even here it says 'let us make man in our image'. I have to wonder what was used as a basis of this translation but there is no preface.

If the Textus Receptus has been fiddled with to push the Trinity, it begs the question, what else do we believe that was not followed by the apostles?

With regards to Isaiah 9:6 how can we be so blind as to not see the words "Everlasting FATHER" as one of Jesus' titles?

I shall look forward to part 2 but I've got to put the shopping away first.

Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter Hub Author 12 months ago

Hi Disappearinghead, I've continued to do research on the history of the text. It is said that the plural verb "Us" and pronominal plural suffix "Our" is in the text (though we can't 'see' it in the Concordance tool). I will accept this to be fact. However, if you read my hub "GOD: Let Us Make Man in Our Image?" I go into the FACT that John 1:1 states "The Word was TO God [theon - object] and the Word was God [theos - subject]. In all these passages, I have resolved, as have Jewish scholars, that God was speaking to His heavenly host.

We may think that the angels were not created until the fourth day, when God created the 'stars'; however, if we consider Gen 1:1-2 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth And the earth was without form", we don't really know when that beginning was. The first day of creation, as recorded in vs. 3-5 simply states God separated the light from the darkness, creating the first day. The second day He separated the waters to become sky and sea, etc.

In other words, it appears the heavens and the earth were in existence on the first day. Look at Job 38:4-7 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Either way, the angels were there when God created man. It would make sense that God would speak to the angels then, as well as in Gen 3:22 and 11:7. Was God not accompanied by angels when He came to speak to Abraham and then sent His angels on to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen 18:2; 19:1)?

We simily HAVE to take the countless usage of singular pronouns of "I" "My" "Me" "He" "His" "Him" regarding God's person, which far outweigh the five usages of "Us" "We" and "Our". In fact, the original languages did not contain capitalization. The fact that these plural pronouns are capitalized is a catylist for error, making God out to be a plural Deity. Even with the word "Elohim" referring to the One God, Jews considered a plural entity heresy and still do. I will edit this section of my hub to reflect these points. It's up to every believer think critically here.

This topic has not rested since the inception of the polytheistic view and it won't rest until we are on the other side of this life. God bless you.

FirstCommunion profile image

FirstCommunion 12 months ago

Yes I do believe in trinity! Very nice information!

Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter Hub Author 12 months ago

I take it you are of the Catholic church, FirstCommunion. Do you find all the practices of the Catholic church biblical, or do you know your Bible? (i.e. that the ‘Church’ was founded upon Peter; the canonizing of saints; praying to and through those saints that have died (and angels, too); their exaltation of Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” and mediator; believing that the Pope or Priest could forgive [remit] sins, etc)? Or do you just accept them as truth because that is what Catholics teach?

How do you exlain the Trinity? Is Jesus both God and Savior to you?

exjwlaurie 12 months ago

EXCELLENT Hub Sister JD! I am so thrilled to see you stand for God in Truth. He reveals Himself to us, when we let go of man-made doctrines, with labels that try to identify in a single word, who God is. Why don't they simply use the Label He gave Himself? "I Am".

He Is GOD. Not a plural God. I left off following man-establish "creed" and "doctrine" and "labels" after a life-time of being utterly deceived by man. So now, anything at all that comes to me dressed in the word "doctrine" is automatically suspect to me!

God reveals Himself to us by revelation--for His Godship is not something we can EVER comprehend in our sinful, human mind. Only through God's revelation upon us as we seek Him with our whole hearts and minds and souls and strength can we truly KNOW Him!

But we have to release any steadfast clinging to the doctrine of men--to strive ahead towards the TRUTH of God. And we learn from HIM directly, truths which we will never learn from man. Just as salvation is a "gift" from God, so too--is Knowing Him.

I love Jeremiah 9:24, "but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and KNOWS ME, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, and righteousness on earth for in these I delight."

See how this then ties to 1 Co 1:24, "but to those whom God has CALLED....Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." 2:30) It is because of him that you are IN Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God, that is our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Then Chapter 2:verse7, goes on to say, "...we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began...10) but God has revealed it to US by His Spirit."

By God's Spirit he reveals Himself to all whom He CALLS into relationship with Himself. Not through a manmade doctrine, taught by men...identified by a label.

Christ is called "the POWER of God and the WISDOM of God." WHEN has God 'ever' been without Power and Wisdom? It is a part of Him, of who He is. Jer 10:12 says: "But God MADE the earth by His POWER; He founded the world by His WISDOM..."

The TRUTH is available to all who seek Him. YOU have spoken truth here for us today Sister JD! I am so proud to have the honor of reading, as you STAND for the TRUTH of GOD! Bless you!

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Judah's Daughter Hub Author 12 months ago

Wow ~ oh, the Lord is GOOD ~ Hallelujah! See, while the Jews were God's chosen and God only revealed Himself to them in the Old Testament, they had no idea God could come in corruptible flesh. As much as they claimed to know God, they knew Him not. They wanted an earthly king! (Oh, may we read 1 Sam 8 ~ sounds a lot like our churches!) John 1:11 "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him"..."in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor 4:4).

When we know the Truth, and I praise our LORD Jesus Christ that YOU DO, no matter WHAT we read in the Bible, we 'see' SO MUCH MORE!! Our blinded eyes are opened!! It is surreal that when we tesify of the Truth, we are called 'heretics' by those who claim to know Him! This 'Trinity' tare has grown into an enormous tree and its roots are in the world, as shown in this hub. If I could count all the words the Lord has had me write on this topic...there still aren't enough to explain and express the things of God. His Spirit is incredible to show the simple-minded anything of His heavenly Truth. May we stand united in ministering to all who are able to receive it.

This takes me back to the words of Paul in 1 Cor 3:2 "I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able" ~ compare this to the words Jesus spoke to His disciples in John 16:12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now." Why couldn't they? Because these things are only revealed by the Spirit, Who was not yet come to baptize them until the Day of Pentecost. Likewise, Paul saw the glory of God, the Lord Jesus, on that road to Damascus and His life and insight was radically changed. I pray the same for all of us who love Him and desire to know Him; for those who do not seek to know may very well be the ones He tells to 'Depart from Me, for I never knew you'. (Mat 7:23)

drpastorcarlotta profile image

drpastorcarlotta 10 months ago

Hi Judah's Daughter and blessings! As always you did a very great job presenting this Hub to us. Thank you! I have missed you but I am back!! lol, lol, Be blessed my friend. Voted-Up!

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Judah's Daughter Hub Author 10 months ago

Ah! drpastorcarlotta!! You are such a blessing ~ I appreciate you reading this hub and for your encouragement. I miss you, too! I've been in the process of moving since the third week of May ~ buried in busy and boxes...lol. It will be nice when I can get back to a sense of calm and 'normalcy' to come and visit you at your HubPage! Know that I love you dearly ~ you're an anointed power-house, sistah!! May the LORD's anointing fall fresh daily upon you and use you mightily in the pulling down of strongholds and the salvation of the called! In HIS NAME, Amen!!

Brian Hyde 9 months ago

Dear JD

Its a little bit intimidating to read comments that only those who God reveals himself will be able to understand the Deity because right now I have lots of questions. I do like the concept of their being only one true God. If it is correct then it makes life a lot easier convincing the Jews and the Muslims who otherwsie laugh Christians to scorn over the irrationality of the Trinity. But do I understand you correctly that you believe that the Father and the Son are one and the same person? So that means, and please correct me if I am wrong. Jesus had no pre-existence prior to his birth as the Son of Man and has no ng existence subsequent to his ascension to Heaven?

My first set of questions stem from one who has been profoundly moved by the most amazing love story in all history that of the Father and His Son Jesus. They love each other as only divine Beings can. And yet for the sake of redeeming fallen man God sent His Only Begotten Son into this world at the real risk that if His Son had sinned He would have been lost to Him forever for divine wrath would have come down upon the head of Christ as it came down upon Adam. John 3:16 encapsulates this amazing sacrifice of love the Father made in giving His Only Begotten to the world. And the Son was willing to come into this world because he had the same heart of love for fallen man. I am thinking here too of the object lesson provided by the story of Abraham and Isaac--who were to my mind a type of the Father and Son.

Q1 The Trinity teaches that the Father and Son is mere role play. Do you think your concept teaches anything less?

Q2. When Jesus ascended to Heaven He said to Mary and his other disciples that He was going to His Father and to his God, and to our Father and our God. Was that literal or figurative speech?

Q3. Jesus as High Priest ever lives to intercede on our behalf so that our personal and individual needs may be met. If the Father and the Son are one and the same how does God intercede with Himself in the role of High Priest?

Q4 We are called fellow heirs with Christ. Is that true that Christ is Heir or is that just figure of speech

In His love

Brian

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Judah's Daughter Hub Author 9 months ago

Hi Brian, I appreciate your questions. I believe the Father is invisible Spirit and Jesus is His 'person' (the image of the invisible God) in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible does not tell us that Jesus was begotten (born), as the Son, prior to His birth here on earth. He is called God's 'only begotten Son' in John 3:16. It is true that angels are called 'sons of God' in the Old Testament (Job 38:4-7). They were not begotten, but created. If Jesus were the Son of God prior to His literal birth, that would make Him an angel, not God Himself. Jesus revealed He is God in a multitude of ways and by what He said to His disciples. Angels are not to be worshiped and in Revelation 19:10 and 22:9, the angel rebuked John for falling at his feet in worship.

I hope you read the sequel to this, which covers Jesus appearing in 'another form' after His resurrection. He took on a different form than His resurrected body. I recently heard the testimony of a Muslim man who was visited by a 'Light'. The man asked 'Who are you?' and was told "I am the Alpha and Omega". The Muslim didn't understand. The Light disappeared; a Christian man at a nearby gathering walked up to him and handed him a Bible, advising him not to read Revelation first, but the book of John. The Muslim man went right to the book of Revelation and in 1:8 read "I am the Alpha and Omega". This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. He knew He had encountered the LORD Jesus Christ and got saved right then and there. Look at the similarity with how Jesus appeared to the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus. He is the 'Mediator', God being able to come to us, give us His Word, guide us, teach us, comfort us, lead us, save us ~ and so much more.

God's earthly Son is the flesh of Jesus Christ. He was fully man and fully God. God is love, and in this split manifestation between the realms (physical and spiritual), the Father (the Spirit) loved the Son and was in Him and worked through Him. He is still in Him and works through Him as the 'Mediator' (relationship) between the realms. Any flesh manifestation of God in the Old Tesatament was His Christ, too. The only reason He had to be born of the flesh is to shed blood for us, for the imperishable has no flesh and blood (1 Cor 15:50) and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins (Heb 9:22). The LORD God said in Hos 13:4 and Isa 43:11, "There is NO Savior besides Me." Acts 20:28 tells us clearly that God purchased the Church with "His own blood." The account of Abraham and Isaac was a prophetic picture of the 'seed' of Abraham (the flesh of God) being sacrificed for the 'seed of Abraham' (Gal 3:29).

The Trinity teaches three 'persons', not three 'roles'. God became a Father (Heb 1:5) to become our Savior. He has always been Spirit and will always be. To see Jesus is to see the Father. To deny Jesus is to deny the Father, for He is One LORD (John 14:7).

Jesus called the Father 'My God' and 'Father' while in His earthly form. He was known as the 'Son of Man' also. As the Son of Man, He related to the Father as we are to relate to Him. This is why He taught His disciples to pray, "Our Father..." etc. As the Son of Man, He was fully subject to the Father as we are to be. He fully walked as we walk and accomplished every work and overcame every temptation, walking in our shoes. What a great love!!

The intercession question is covered in my second hub as follows:

Jesus and the Holy Spirit make intercession for us:

"We just discussed the Mediation of Christ. The thing we need to realize is God is Spirit, the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ are one in the same. Look at Rom 8:9: “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.”

How does the Spirit of God/Spirit of Christ intercede for us? In us and through us, for we are a kingdom of priests (Rom 8:26-27; Rev 5:10). Jesus, of course, is our High Priest (Heb 8:1). Again, all mediation will cease when the final enemy of man’s physical death is destroyed."

We are called 'fellow heirs' with Christ because God (Spirit) gave us the inheritance (eternal life) through faith in the Son, God in the flesh. If the flesh of God had failed as the second 'Adam', we would have no inheritance and God could not have saved us. Only the LORD can explain these things to you fully.

Bottom line is, God had two manifestations all throughout the Bible: Spiritual and physical. This directly aligns with 'Father and Son'. As it was in the beginning, God and man, so it will be in the heavenly realm eternally. There will be no need for a Mediator, and Jesus will certainly not cease to exist. As fully God, He reigns forever and ever, as our Creator and LORD, as our Husband and Father, as King of kings.

There's far too much information to put in a comment box or even one or two hubs, so I invite you to read the other hubs, linked within each individual hub, as many many things are addressed. I had questions, as you do; I asked of the Lord and He answered me. I am not adequate (perfect) in my explanations, but I will do the very best I can. Be blesssed, in Jesus' name.

Brian Hyde  9 months ago

Hi JD

Wow, so much to get my head around. Thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply. I do appreciate this because I know how long it takes to put togethr a reply like that. It took ages to formulate my questions. So, yes, thank you. I will consider your reply and other links you refer to and let you know my conclusion. What we do share as I indicated before is the clear Biblical teaching that there is only one true God. I think that John 17:3 is glossed over by too many Christians.

About roles within the Trinity. I call it roles because if there are three Persons each essentially God as implied by God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and they have always existed as Father Son and HS, then it begs the question why Father why Son? If this nomenclature does not mean what it says then it is a sham, mere role play. Thats my response to Trinitarians.

God's blessings on you my sister

Brian

Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter Hub Author 9 months ago

Thank you, Brian. The thing that really solidified NOT believing in the Trinity doctrine is that the belief is, the Father is NOT the Son, the Son is NOT the Father, and the neither are the Holy Spirit. If each are God, unified, there are three 'persons', three gods in one (unity) rather than in number or person. That is polytheism, and since God does NOT change who He is, He chose to reveal Himself to His chosen for 4,000 years before He came and they NEVER split Him up into more than One, singular GOD. Neither did the early disciples of the Apostles ~ Catholicism is the first to birth this doctrine and it took off like a wildfire. No church or theology led me to the conclusion I received; I believe it came directly from my Shepherd, and I have only one: (Psalm 23:1; John 10:11-14). Amen ~ and God's blessings on you, too, my brother. JD

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